Brother Michael said he was of the belief that abuse was widespread in the order and not just a "temporary hiccup" by about 1997.

He said he was now embarrassed that in 1999 he had taken the subsequently disgraced Brother Romuald – Francis William Cable – at his word when he said he had been wrongly accused.

He said he had been "naive" to have believed Brother Romuald.

Counsel assisting the commission, Stephen Free, said to Brother Michael: "So you simply took him at his word, is that . . . "

Brother Hill: "That's right."

Brother Romuald left the Marist Brothers in 1978, and came to Canberra, where he taught at St Edmund's College for a decade.

Moving to Brother Dominic – Darcy O'Sullivan – Mr Free asked Brother Michael about his statement saying that the only complaint he had heard about this brother was that he had "done something foolish, he had made an inappropriate statement to a student".

Brother Michael said Brother Dominic had phoned him in his capacity as provincial to say that he had spoken inappropriately to the boy, saying: "Soon you'll get hair on your balls."

He said Brother Dominic had told him this the night before he had been due to front the Brisbane Catholic Education authorities the following morning, when he was reprimanded but not stood down.

He said he had nothing about Brother Dominic putting a hand on the boy's thigh and rubbing him and kissing him on the top of his head.

He said Brother Dominic might have agreed to a "hands off" approach after being disciplined by the Catholic Education Office but he could not recall it.

He said he could recall a police investigation into Brother Dominic in 1996 and that he had subsequently learned the complaint had been withdrawn in early 1997.

He agreed it would have been important of him, as provincial, to be aware of such issues and would have expected the Catholic Education Office to pass information on.

Asked if he would hope an accused brother would voluntarily report to him, he said: 'I think that would be a vain hope."

"Offenders tend to minimise the reality of what has happened," Brother Michael said.

He said he could not recall clearly what he said to Brother Dominic at the time but he would have "indicated that it was a gross violation of boundaries . . . and that it was quite inappropriate, particularly for a person in that position".

Asked by Mr Free about evidence to the Royal Commission that a student code-named CNP had complained to Brother Dominic's school principal in 1972, he said: "I was not aware of that."

He said he as not aware of the principal, Brother Christopher, receiving a complaint about Brother Dominic at any time.

He was also not aware that Brother Alexis – his predecessor as provincial and who gave evidence on Tuesday – had received a complaint about Brother Romuald from a parish priest at Casino in northern NSW, Father Hackett.

He said Brother Alexis "sometimes" talked to him about complaints of inappropriate behaviour by Marist brothers. He said Brother Alexis "occasionally" asked him to investigate "complaints that had reached him", but not in relation to Brother Dominic.

Brother Michael was asked about Brother Dominic's appointment in June 1996 as principal of St Francis Xavier at Hamilton, the school previously known as Marist Brothers Hamilton.

He said Bishop Michael Malone was the first person to object to Brother Dominic's appointment, but nothing had been said before hand.

He said Bishop Malone had received complaints from various people within hours of the appointment being announced.

Brother Michael said he withdrew Brother Dominic's commission as principal before Bishop Malone had finished speaking to him, but he could not recall any of the details.

Mr Free: "What was the nature of the complaints?"

Brother Michael: "I'm not aware – inappropriate behaviour but there were no more details than that."

Mr Free: "Weren't you concerned to know?"

Brother Michael: "Absolutely. The first thing was to deal with the immediate issue which was the appointment itself."

Soon afterwards, the minutes of a Marist Brothers provincial council meeting recorded: "Brother Dominic O'Sullivan is unable to go to Hamilton next year because of health reasons. Discussion on the possible replacement for Brother Dominic took place."

Brother Michael said he would have told the members of the council about the complaints made by Bishop Malone but but he had "no specific memory of that particular discussion".

"That certainly would have arisen, given what had happened," Brother Michael said.

"I would have told the members of the provincial council about the details we have already discussed here, so why it is expressed that way I cannot give an explanation," Brother Michael said.

When Mr Free said the minutes were completely wrong in referring to health reasons, Brother Michael said: "Yes. Well it is misleading, certainly."

The chairman of the commission, Justice Peter McClellan, said: "It looks like someone's trying to hide the truth?"

"It certainly appears that way," Brother Michael said.

He said that although he understood Bishop Malone had not wanted Brother Dominic as principal at Hamilton because of his "inappropriate conduct" he did not try to find out more about the complaints, saying: "Because I couldn't see any way of identifying the people concerned."

The commission heard the Marist Brothers sent Brother Dominic to an American program, Wellsprings, in 1997, to address his problems with what Brother Michael called "boundary violations".

While Brother Dominic was away, Brother Michael said he considered sending him to Fiji but he objected, and he didn't force the issue.

Marist records show the provincial council "considered the possibility of Brother Dominic going to Dundas or Ashgrove. However the principals at these two schools expressed some reservation about the appointment".

Brother Michael said he "presumed" the positions at either school involved teaching, but he said he was "determined that Dominic was not going to be in a position of contact with minors".

He said he told the provincial council members about Brother Dominic but could not remember when.

Asked about the school at Dundas, in western Sydney near Parramatta, Brother Michael said he did not think Brother Dominic would have fitted into the culture there.

Mr Free: "Is Dundas a rough school, is that what we were getting at?"

Brother Michael: "Yes, yes, in those days."

He said he eventually appointed Brother Dominic to a secretarial role, partly because it avoided unsupervised contact with children, and partly because he was skilled at secretarial work.

"The alarm bells were quite deafening at that stage," Brother Michael said.

He said he finished as provincial in 2001 and that he "would have" told his successor about Brother Dominic but he did not "have a specific memory of the conversation".

Mr Free then took Brother Michael to another brother, Brother Patrick, whose real name was Thomas Butler.

He said he knew nothing about a complaint against Brother Patrick at Marist Brothers Eastwood in the 1960s. He was aware of a complaint made against Brother Patrick in the 1970s that either came from his provincial, Brother Alexis, when he (Brother Michael) was deputy provincial, or from a document.

The commission heard on Tuesday from a former student, CNQ, had punched Brother Patrick in the head after the brother had sat next to him and fondled his leg.

Asked about this, Brother Michael said: "I think I would have remembered it and the answer is no."

Mr Free: "You would have remembered it because it's a fairly . . . "

Brother Michael: "Well, you don't often get up and punch a brother, yes."

Brother Michael said that when he took over as provincial, Brother Patrick was "tutoring" but no longer teaching.

"My understanding was that he was assisting with the boarders' study in the presence of others – other supervisors, study supervisors," Brother Michel said.

He said he had never heard until evidence on Tuesday about two boys being caught in the bush outside Ashgrove school in Brisbane, when the boys had said they did not want to go back to school because of the way that Brother Patrick had been touching them.

He said Brother Alexis had not told him about that at the "handover" in 1995.

Brother Michael: "Not necessarily that detail, no. I think that would have been unrealistic."

He agreed it reflected "pretty poorly" on the order's supervision and vigilance, but he said: "As I say, it would be unrealistic to cover every base . . . . in the handover ceremony, otherwise we would still be doing it."

Brother Michael was then taken to a Marist Brothers document that listed members of the order who were the subject of "supervision arrangements or restrictions on duties as a consequence of a complaint or allegation of, or conviction for, child sexual abuse".

In it, Brother Patrick is recorded as having supervision arrangements and restrictions of duties imposed on him in August 1992.

Mr Free: "Do you know what they were?"

Brother Michael: "I don't. Oh no, I don't"

He was not sure what supervision was imposed on Brother Patrick.

Brother Michael agreed he was aware of multiple complaints about Brother Patrick by the time that he, Brother Michael, became provincial in 1995.

Asked his attitude about it all, Brother Michael said: "Well certainly, he – by the time I took over, it was quite clear that he could not have unsupervised contact with children, right? That was abundantly clear."

Brother Michael was taken again to correspondence between him and Bishop Malone in 1996, in which Brother Michael said he understood that the police had investigated complaints against Brother Patrick, but that his behaviour was "certainly injudicious and inappropriate but not criminal in nature".

Justice McClellan then asked if Brother Michael understood the difference between the order's responsibilities for the conduct of the brothers, and what the police considered as sufficient evidence for a criminal conviction beyond reasonable doubt.

As he did with Brother Alexis on Tuesday, Justice McClellan asked if he had an explanation as to why so many brothers "engaged in this behaviour".

Brother Michael" "I have no explanation for that. None whatsoever. It has exercised my mind for 20 years."

- Newcastle Herald